This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are used for visitor analysis, others are essential to making our site function properly and improve the user experience. By using this site, you consent to the placement of these cookies. Click Accept to consent and dismiss this message or Deny to leave this website. Read our Privacy Statement for more.
Podcast - Season 1 - Episode 7 - Transcript
Share |

Season 1, Episode 7 Transcript


This episode of ISAVE That Podcast is made possible by the support from The AVA Foundation, which was created to support AVA's mission: Protect the Patient | Educate the Clinician | Save the Line. The AVA Foundation serves clinicians interested in Vascular Access, students of healthcare professions, as well as patients and their families through funding, Vascular Access innovation, research and education. For more information, visit

From the Association for Vascular Access, this is the ISAVE That Podcast.

Ramzy: You have arrived at Season 1, episode 7, post-AVA Scientific Meeting conference edition of the ISAVE That Podcast, presented by The AVA Foundation. I'm joined today by Director of Communications, Eric Seger, who's also the JAVA Editor-in-Chief, as well as AVA's Director of Clinical Education, Ms. Judy Thompson. Friends, how are you?

Eric: Hey, Ramzy.

Judy: Hey, how are you guys?

Ramzy: The afterglow, I call it the afterglow and not the hangover from the Scientific Meeting in Columbus. I can't believe, and we've talked about this for months: You put all this effort into planning this giant meeting. It's kinda like planning a wedding and then you show up and you blink and then it's really quiet and now we're planning the next one. Gone. Yeah. You know, Judy attended last year's, scientific meeting in Phoenix as the AVA President of the Board and has attended as the President-Elect. She's attended as a member. She's been a first-timer. This year, she attended as the Director of Clinical Education, which means Judy has viewed our biggest event of the year through so many different parts of the prism. Judy, how did you know, with all that context in mind, how did Columbus strike you in terms of all the meetings you've attended? Considering you were looking at it through, through the specter of being our highest profile clinical mind.

Judy: It was amazing. Every year, we keep saying this, but I think the content continues to get better and better and more, more scientific. It's the presenters are better and better. It's just phenomenal to see the differences that over the years. And you're right, I remember my first conference as a brand new attendee and I talked to a few the first time attendees this go ‘round, or many of them, and I was actually an ambassador this year as well. And the excitement they have and the concern they have and they come in not knowing everyone or anyone and I'm so happy to hear that they have the same type of feeling for our group as I had. It's everybody was so accommodating and so willing to take their hand and guide them and friendly and helpful. So, I don't think our attitudes have changed, which is wonderful because this has been many, many, many years of me attending AVAs and in whatever position it might be. So, gosh, it was amazing. I just loved every moment of it. I love the AVATAR Group at the very end doing there antimicrobial versus non-coated catheter talk.

Ramzy: Does catheter material matter? Yeah. That was really entertaining.

Judy: It was hilarious, entertaining, and had some great information. And a very play-like atmosphere. So, there was, there's so many highlights. It's really hard to say what was my favorite. But you know, there's a lot of PIV talk this year. An awful lot of PIV talk, a lot of infection prevention as normal. There's always a little bit of talk on thrombosis, but I think far and away the PIV talk was kind of the talk of the town.

Eric: Well, being a Columbus resident, I was so excited, as you guys know, to have AVA come to where I live and the fact that we eclipsed a thousand clinical attendees for the first time, that was such a great way to kick off the entire meeting. And I was so excited to get that press release out to just tell the world. AVA continues to blossom and grow. So, I really enjoyed that aspect of it. And so many people seemed like they just had just a great time as well. I mean, they, they spoke about the way Columbus was put together. They were happy that the hotels were connected directly to the Convention Center. Things just all really flowed freely together. I think the sessions were all brilliant. I thought Dr. Jack's talk was hilarious, as always. And it was great that Suzanne was able to be there to present him with the Herbst Award. I thought that that was really powerful and emotional. And then, you know, Marcus Engel, the keynote that he really started at all, he set the groundwork for a great conference I thought. And I thought that was a huge reason why we had so many people stay all the way through the end, you know, to the AVATAR session that you were talking about Judy. That that room was full and that normally doesn't happen. So, I thought that everything was great.

Ramzy: That AVATAR session was the Lunch and Learn presented by The AVA Foundation that I participated in as well. We had to hastily accommodate for 200 extra lunches because we completely missed the forecast on how many people would be there on day four of the conference. So yeah, that was, I mean, overwhelming success.

Judy: Without a doubt. I've been a presenter at the last, the last event of AVA before and you know, credit to AVATAR or maybe it says something about me, but it was so well attended.

Ramzy: The last act at Woodstock: Judy Thompson.

Judy: Yeah, I could've been there. Yes. But overall, oh my gosh, it was great. I cannot wait for Las Vegas. As this conference continues to get better and better, that venue is going to be super fun. You know, we're all so nerdy that we'll probably stay within the conference and learn, but come in exhausted from the night before so it'll be great.

Ramzy: Not that nerdy, Judy. It's still Caesars.

Judy: I know. Seriously.

Eric: I've never been to Vegas in my life. I'm excitedly nervous. So, I think I'll have to be smart about how I do things, but I'm hoping that it is as greatest successes this year. If we can continue that, then we're going to be in good shape moving forward here. From a leadership standpoint, Ramzy, what was your impressions on how everything molded together?

Ramzy: Oh, well, kind of parallel to Judy. I, too, have attended AVA wearing different hats. I, I've been there as a field sales representative. I've been there as an in-line marketing manager for the US. I've been there as a global representative for my employer. Last year as a first-time attendee, as an AVA employee. And then this year, seasoned AVA employee. So, I have some skepticism when everyone's grabbing you and pulling you aside and telling you how great your conference is. It's kind of like having a party and people telling you that you have a lovely home and you know, it feels good, but like, are they just being nice or are they, is this truly what constructive feedback looks like?

The measurable stuff tells us a good story. I emceed the Teleflex cadaver lab in the pre-conference, I spent a lot of time and the PediSIG. When I went out to do my my opening act for Marcus Engel, who emailed me this morning by the way, he's still glowing about having attended the AVA conference. It's just incredible. You walk out on that general session stage and you see, I think it was probably at least 1300 faces looking back at you. And then they've, they lift their phones to take a picture of you and you're like, I was wearing a Zeke Elliot Jersey and a blazer. Not really my usual getup. The energy felt different, I thought the energy in Phoenix was great in 2017 and I've always had the highest possible regard for AVA conferences. I've been to so many in both medicine and IT. You attend these association meetings and they tend to run together.

AVA has a significantly different energy. This year, the energy was, was like nothing I'd ever experienced before. You can tell that the trajectory is where all of our measurable, all of our analytics tell us it is from industry partnership and involvement, to membership growth and our burgeoning networks on the local level. But I'll tell you this from having worn the industry hat for long and having played the role of what we affectionately refer to as the Booth Jockey in the exhibit hall: On that final day of exhibit hall hours, that's generally a ghost town if you get it. And I'm not talking about AVA, I'm talking about everything, but those final hours, attendees have usually already been to the exhibit hall. They've seen what they wanted to see. The food and drink is a notch below what it is on the, on the first night when it's, you know, premium bar open and there's that beginning of conference buzz. On that final day of exhibitor hours, you're generally networking with other exhibitors, trying to poach their employees or just kind of doing housekeeping can catch up on email in the booth. I had a couple of exhibits come up to me and sort of tongue-in-cheek, express their dissatisfaction of how busy the final day, the final exhibitor hours were. And they weren't being facetious. I went in there and it was packed and it was buzzing and you almost wouldn't have known that it was the end of the exhibition hours. It tells me that we need to have more of them and I'm going to wait to see the feedback because if you run out of time with customers, that's bad. You actually want it to die down at the, because that means you've, you've talked to everyone that you, you can talk to.

So, that's I think what we saw on Columbus vis a vi vendors, was eye-opening and, and we need to investigate that because I've never seen that in any conference before in my life or where you had to actually remove people from the exhibit hall is closed. So, that was great. I've had a lot of interest and part of my messaging at the beginning of the conference, Eric and you were there because you were in the auditorium was AVA being a 12-month partner for industry and not just a once a year get together, have a big awesome show and then see ya in a year. AVA has too much work to do. Vascular Access is still not held in the esteem and the level of importance that it needs to in the care setting. And also, in the non-acute care setting. I had a lot of really positive feedback from industry saying, 'You know what, let's do more than just every September or October. Let's talk about what we can do in February. What we can do in May.' So, it's quiet after the conference, but man, it's busy as heck over here. So yeah, 2018, I'm excited that the bar is higher for us heading into Caesars in October 2019 because we have to outdo what we did this year. And I love the, the tailwinds that we have working in our advantage.

Eric: That's a credit to all the fine people at Conference Managers and Sponsorship Boost that help us put it together as well as Tonya. I mean, conference is her baby as you and I know well, so she really thrives on that. And the credit to Columbus as well. I thought the Convention Center was beautiful and really laid out well. So, everything went well and there's a lot of positive upward momentum to build on.

Ramzy: Yeah, our team is incredible. And Tonya Hutchison is, I'm going to say the GOAT: The Greatest Of All Time with regard to being that person in the front of the boat leading us every year with our biggest event. And you know what, I forgot to mention this earlier when Judy was giving feedback, we're going to have multidisciplinary perspectives and also first-timer perspective later in the broadcast, right?

Eric: Correct. Yeah. We'll probably get to that a little bit later, but we have two first-timers, we were able to speak to about their experiences. One from Alaska all the way. She flew all the way to Ohio from Alaska and then another from Oklahoma. So, they're going to share their perspectives both on Columbus and the education as well, and their excitement around what AVA's doing moving forward. So, I think we're going to hop back with a member of our Board of Directors after the break and then get to those first-timer interviews a little bit later, so stay tuned.

The AVA Foundation provides research grants to develop and evaluate practices, technologies, and innovations within Vascular Access that improve clinical outcomes. This funding is competitively awarded and assessed by the Foundation's Board across the criteria of significance in innovation, scientific quality and team capability. The Foundation also provides funding to healthcare practitioners for both specialized and higher education in Vascular Access so that they may deliver the highest level of Vascular Access care. It support seminars, panels, and education programs to provide updates in Vascular Access practice and stimulate learning. Travel awards scholarships are available to clinicians attending the AVA Annual Scientific Meeting to promote hands on involvement and education. The AVA Foundation strives to promote patient education by funding support for educational videos and consumer literature along with consumer-oriented PR and editorial articles. Family and patient education can help ensure that recipients of Vascular Access can understand how to participate in their healthcare. To make a one-time donation or schedule regular donations to The AVA Foundation, please visit You may earmark your donation for innovation, research, education or to the overall mission of The AVA Foundation. Together we can drive the changes and improvements necessary to ensure Vascular Access is as safe as possible for the millions of patients who undergo these procedures every day.

Ramzy: And welcome back. We are joined by Christie Chapman, who is an infection preventionist in San Diego. AVA is a multidisciplinary organization as you know, and Christie actually carries that flag in two ways. One, she just attended her second AVA conference, the one in Columbus, and two, she is one of my bosses. She's on the AVA Board of Directors, representing infection prevention. Christie, how are you doing?

Christie: I'm well. How are you guys today?

Ramzy: I think we're good. Are we good?

Eric: We're awesome. Awesome.

Judy: We're all good. Hey Christie, this is Judy.

Christie: Hey, Judy, another beautiful day in paradise, isn't it?

Judy: Ah, gotta love San Diego.

Ramzy: Got two San Diegans or current San Diegans on the phone and two native Ohioans. It's like the Holiday Bowl from like 1993. Christie, I think listeners would be really interested in hearing your perspective on – we just had our largest AVA conference ever – coming into it representing specialty outside of Vascular Access. What were your impressions this time around and also this time around versus your first AVA conference?

Christie: I, the common theme between the two years was that I was like a kid in a candy store. It was – infection prevention unfortunately doesn't get to just focus on Vascular Access. They have construction, they have all sorts of other things they have to focus on as well. So, just to be able to focus on Vascular Access, the specialty, was an amazing opportunity for me both last year and this year. The cool thing about this year, I kind of knew my way around a little bit more. I understood kind of who, who was the rock stars in Vascular Access world. The folks that really lead research and drive change and are your kind of, passionate, knowledgeable, banner carriers for AVA. So, it was really nice to be able to identify those folks and kind of sit at their feet and listen and learn, learn from them.

But you guys do such a great job with your first-timers programs in the way you, and your website and your conference kind of online brochure. And that whole registration and onboarding process really makes it easy for a first time person to be able to kind of find your way around all of the different venues for learning, venues for networking, venues for understanding the Exhibit Hall, all of that. You guys do a really good job onboarding new folks like that. So, kudos to you guys for, for that process. But second year was, like I said, just, it was, I just felt a little more at home. I kind of knew where I wanted to be and what I wanted to learn about and where I go to get that learning. And I was able to kind of more enjoy the energy and the camaraderie this year. So it was, it was really two times as awesome, if not more this year. But more because of I now understood the experiences of AVA national, the Scientific Meeting.

Judy: So, you mentioned camaraderie and as an infection preventionist around all those Vascular Access folks. Do you feel you are us now?

Christie: I do. I do. I have to be honest with you, last year I felt a little, a little kind of on the outside looking in just because I just, because I didn't know. I don't think the typical infection preventionist, you know, doesn't really understand, and I don't want this to sound like we don't care, but really doesn't know who these thought leaders are in Vascular Access. We've seen some papers, you know, we see the kind of the HICPAC folks and those kinds of folks, the INS folks. But we really, AVA has such a deep bench of knowledge and thought leaders that infection prevention has really needed to tap into.

And I really felt that acceptance and that camaraderie from, from those leaders and from the attendees this year. And I had to tell you to be honest with you, I did get a few little questions of, you know, when they found out we were infection preventionists, that I was in infection preventionist, they had some questions for me about, 'Why do you make us do this or why do we have to do that?' But I love that sense of let's talk about, it wasn't confrontational, it wasn't rude or anything, but let's talk about it and let's get each other's perspective and, and those, start the discussion.

Judy: That's awesome because you guys might not understand – you guys, I'm know making it sound like we're two different folks – but when infection preventionists tell us this is something we need to do and Vascular Access says this is something we shouldn't do or should do. It's really good to get the perspective from both sides. So, I think one of the huge benefits I see of having you, an infection preventionist, as part of AVA. Just wanted to know how you felt about it. Thanks.

Christie: Yeah, no, I think it's awesome because you're exactly right. There's so many nuances around Vascular Access that that infection preventionist aren't able to get totally deep into, but we as IPs have to listen to our Vascular Access experts to help us drive really good solid long term Vascular Access practices for our patients. So, we don't ruin their veins, you know, in the long run and we don't do things that are just trying to dodge CLABSI. We really do need to think about the right line, for the right patient, at the right time.

Judy: Well said.

Eric: Dove tailing off that thought. Christie, what do you hope to see from AVA in 2019 when we all get together in Las Vegas when it comes to that topic?

Christie: Yeah. I really, one of my goals this year, since we're out west and I'm out west, I really want to see some of my fellow APIC folks at the national meeting this year and I'm going to talk until I'm blue in the face and share my experiences until they're probably sick of hearing about it. What I'm seeing with, with infection preventionists, is that they are looking to kind of go outside the traditional infection prevention education. That's awesome. And that's our foundation or our basis. But I saw two of our infection preventionists this year apply for scholarships through our local APIC chapter to go to AORN conferences that were nearby. And that's the operating area of that information and what I'm going to do. And I thought that was awesome and we were happy to grant them that money to find, to really hone their knowledge around operating room practices.

So, what I really see too is us being able to branch out in the Vascular Access area as well. And with it being so close to us on the west coast, I want to see some infection preventionists go to the meeting in Las Vegas this year. I think that's going to be a really great, close opportunity for them to do that. What I would also see, you know, I'm also going to keep talking about is IPs getting involved in their local VAN. I have gained so much knowledge from my interaction with the SANVAN group. The programs are always spot, education for us digging deep into Vascular Access issues that I might not typically be exposed to as an infection preventionist. You always have great speakers. It's always a great time. I get to talk to other practitioners and see what they're doing in other hospitals. So, the other piece is I want to really encourage infection preventionist to get involved in their local VAN. But I really, for 2019 I really want to see a good, good group of IPs working their way to the, to the 2019 meeting in Las Vegas. I think we'll all be, all be better IPs for it.

Eric: Yeah, it's not that far from San Diego like you mentioned. You should bring some of your friends with you.

Christie: Absolutely. It's a quick, quick airplane hop or a really interesting car trip.

Eric: Well Christie, we thank you so much for hopping on with us and giving your perspective not only as an infection preventionist but also as a Board of Director of the Association for Vascular Access.

Ramzy: Thanks again, Christie.

Christie: You're welcome. Y'all have a good day.

Eric: Coming up. We'll have some more reaction from the scientific meeting in Columbus from a few first time attendees. Stay tuned. 

Eric: And we have the honor of being joined today by Nancy Yankovic from Providence, Alaska Medical Center who was also a nurse educator for SecurAcath and Tori Amsler from Saint Mary's Hospital in Enid, Oklahoma. Both Tori and Nancy were first-time attendees in Columbus this year for the annual AVA Scientific Meeting. Tori, Nancy, I wanted to thank you guys for joining us.

Tori: Thank you.

Eric: Excuse me. I should say you ladies. Pardon me there. Judy Thompson, AVA's Director of Clinical Education is also on the line with us as well as AVA CEO Ramzy Nasrallah.

Judy: Hi, guys.

Ramzy: Hey everyone, welcome welcome.

Eric: We'll just go ahead and dive into the topic of today's podcast, which is AVA 2018. I can't believe it's already finished up. You know, we did so much planning and then all of a sudden, it's gone now. So, oh, I guess we'll sort of start Nancy and Tori with a pretty basic question. How were you both first introduced to AVA as an organization?

Tori: I was introduced about 10 years ago when I started Vascular Access, kind of by a mentor of mine, Caroline Polly. She did some of our training at the hospital and introduced me into AVA that way.

Nancy: And I've been working at my facility for 8 years in Vascular Access and AVA's always kind of been something that, you know, we've gone on their website for things and, and I have the JAVA subscription, but it wasn't until last year, Amy Stone, who's a mentor of mine, suggested to me that it would really be beneficial to my nursing practice and the direction that I want my nursing career to go to attend AVA. And that's what led me to start looking into options to going this year.

Eric: Amy is a terrific person to know. She's been an AVA proponent for years. That's great to have a nice connection there. What was your sort of overall impression of the Scientific Meeting prior to having attended? What were you sort of expecting? Anything from educational content and networking, attendance or the social aspect of it?

Nancy: Well, myself, I was expecting all of those things, but I didn't really know what to expect either. This is actually the first professional conference that I have had the opportunity to attend. I had looked on the website and I've seen videos from years prior and looked at a lot of pictures and talked with a number of people who have gone and was told, 'Oh, there's going to be great networking opportunities, great education' but I wasn't exactly certain what to expect. But I can assure you that it did not disappoint. I was very excited and slightly overwhelmed by what all I was able to take in at the AVA conference this year.

Eric: That's what like to hear. That's great.

Judy: Absolutely. Did you find that everybody was welcoming and kind of a warm reception?

Nancy: For myself, absolutely. Everybody that I met, was so, so welcoming and so excited about the conference and excited about Vascular Access. As a vascular access professional, I think you just can't help but get even more excited just being in that realm with that many other intelligent minds who see Vascular Access the way you do. I know for me, you know, we're kind of a smaller team. There's two of us on each day in a 350-bed hospital. And sometimes it feels like people who are outside of Vascular Access don't, don't get it and maybe feel like we're more of an auxiliary specialty for the hospital. Just kind of something on the side rather than, um, what vascular access really is. So, it was really nice to be among people who really appreciate the specialty for what it is the way I do.

Judy: That's good to hear. How about our Oklahoma contingent?

Tori: I absolutely agree with Nancy. I was very nervous to say the least about traveling from Oklahoma to Columbus and it being my first time. I've had connections with Cindy Anderton. She's been a great resource for me and for my network, the OKVAN chapter. So, she's helped guide me kind of through some of these steps. Then reached out to me too about my free attendance. And we've also been lucky to have Tonya Hutchison come out to our first OKVAN meeting and was great. So, I knew some people going into it, but I signed up for the ambassador program just to have, you know, an extra resource in case, you know, they were busy.

And so, I met Patty from Lawrence, Kansas, and she was great. She checked in on me. When I walked in and I saw all of the opportunities, I thought, 'Oh my gosh, how am I going to be able to get to all of these things that I want to go to? I want to go to that one and that one.' And I flew in early on Friday and I went to the cadaver class and I was blown away. I thought if the rest of the days are like this, I have hit the jackpot. I was super excited and just like Nancy said, I'm from a smaller hospital also and I have a partner that we work with hand-in-hand 5 days a week and we feel that same way. Vascular Access, is kind of, you know, something that's forgotten or you get to it when you get to it. And for us, Vascular Access Specialists, that's the first thing that you look at when you walk in the door and you see the patient. So, I met some great people. I was just excited to have those people there also. They feel the same way you do and someone's finally talk in your language. And so it's just great and you're surrounded by that the entire time. And as far as walking through the door, everyone greeted me, everyone made sure I knew where I was going. They were more than willing to help me in any way possible. So, for the first time I had an amazing time.

Eric: Speaking about the cadaver lab, this was only my second scientific meeting myself, I haven't been with AVA for that long. And I shared a lot of the same sentiment as both of you. Last year when I went to Phoenix for the conference for the first time. In Columbus this year, I actually did spend time in the cadaver lab and that was also a first for me, Teleflex sponsors that really great job with it. And it's such a vital and important part of the pre-conference session. So, I'm really happy to hear that.

Ramzy: Eric was actually a live, cadaver in the cadaver lab.

Judy: I don't know if that's a thing, to be a live cadaver.

Eric: Both of you actually may have used ultrasound to check out my, some of my veins. I'm for sure. But that was quite an experience. I learned so much there and I work for AVA so there's always more to do as you guys both have mentioned.

Judy: That is great and I'm glad you took advantage of the ambassador program, cause I really think they do a great job with that. And I still remember my very first AVA and how friendly and outgoing, people just went out of their way to make me feel welcome, which really eased my nerves because you're walking side by side with people that have written a lot of the articles that I referenced and it was all always fun and always exciting. It's just nice to feel like you're with like-minded people as well.

Tori: Before the cadaver class I was kind of looking around, scoping everything out and I ran into another person that looks just like me and we just hit it off automatically. And then, you know, as we were studying and waiting, the people that you talk to and introduce yourself to, it's like you've known them for years. You can talk about the same things, the problems that they're having in their facility, you're having in yours. So, you know, you have a networking opportunity, bounce ideas off someone, but you also build a friendship with someone that you know you would've never met prior to conference. I would have never met someone from Seattle or from New York. So, it was amazing.

Judy: That's wonderful to hear. It's fun hearing it from new attendees, but even people that have been around for many years, I still get just re-energized every time I go.

Eric: For both Nancy and Tori, sort of my next question as far as, well, we hope you guys, it sounds like you had a great experience in Columbus, so we're hoping that you come back obviously, but for someone who was in your shoes before you attended your first conference, what kind of advice would you guys have to share for them?

Nancy: Well, for me, my advice would be definitely to go. Get the time off from work, save up for it and look for scholarship opportunities both with AVA and at your facility. I was fortunate enough to be the recipient of the AVA scholarship for travel this year and I was also awarded a scholarship from the retention department from my job as well. So that, that really made it possible. Coming out of Alaska, it's, it's incredibly expensive to go anywhere. Getting those scholarships was really beneficial to help me pay my way to get down there. My hospital also covers $500 a year for education. That is associated with the type of work that you do. So, this fell, this conference fell under that for me. So, I was able to get that covered by my hospital as well. So, I would really encourage people to look for the financial opportunities that are out there. Because I really feel like a lot of hospitals, they really want you to get the education and that you know, that there are opportunities out there that you have to go and look for. And nobody ever told me, 'oh, hey, well we'll pay all this extra money, you know, and these scholarships are available.'

And I started digging around on the Internet at work and looking and I found those opportunities and applied for them and was fortunate enough to get them. And then of course the AVA scholarship is fantastic as well for anybody who wants to go. I really appreciated that AVA thought that the work that I'm doing is important. And so that, that really helped, empowers me to, to want to do more. This four-day session has done so much as well to validate for me the work that I've been doing to try and improve practice. So, anybody who's kind of in that same situation where, you know, they, they know that what they're doing is good and is right and they're in the right going in the right direction, but you know, they need that additional validation. You're definitely, definitely going to get that from the AVA conference and from all the attendees that are there.

Eric: With your coworkers being able to bring back that validation, I hope you've been able to share some of the things that you've learned at AVA.

Nancy: Oh, absolutely. And even better too, one of the scholarships that I was approved for from work, part of that scholarship is that the recipient has the duty to come back and do an educational piece at work. And so, on October 16, I am scheduled to do education for all of the in-hospital educators as well as the infection prevention department on getting AC IVs out. And that's what I have chosen to do. My educational piece on based on work that I have been doing and additional education that I got at AVA and additional validation that I've gotten, especially from Ms. Nancy Moureau on the work that I've been doing.

Judy: That's awesome. How about you Tori? What, what's one of your big takeaways from the conference?

Tori: Well, I agree with Nancy about planning: Just to do it. Think about it and you know, and I've done that too. This year throughout my OKVAN network, I am the president this year. And so, one of the benefits from AVA was you get a free attendance. So, I kind of capitalized on that and went. To say the one thing, I probably thought was my favorite was the cadaver class, but the technique with the ultrasounds the new technology coming through the line just with ultrasound and IVs. That's something that we've been doing for a long time. You know, have we been doing it correctly every time? You know what we thought was correct. Yes. That learning those little things that you know, change your process or make your process better. It's just like, 'Oh yeah!' The light just comes on and just to see other people's technique and what you have been doing and, and like Nancy said, you've been, you're working hard and trying to push this through and, and going to conference just validates what you've been following with standards and evidenced-based practice. You have that much more to back you up when you're going to your facility or even in our network meetings, we bring in speakers and it just validates all the hard work that everybody has been putting in. You can lay it on out and say, 'This is what we need to do. This is what we need to be striving for it. This is the kind of care that we want our patients to have.' So that was my take away what I can get to bring back to share with Oklahoma and OKVAN. What we can do to make patient care better. That was one of the things I was, I was most interested in. Moving forward, getting out of, 'Well, this is what we've always done.' Well, let's get rid of that and let's move forward and use the technology that's out there.

Eric: Yeah, being open to learning new ideas and hearing from all the fantastic Vascular Access key opinion leaders that all descended upon one place for a four-day period of time is extremely beneficial. Again, this has been a great conversation with Nancy all the way up in Alaska and Tori in Oklahoma. It shows sort of the breadth of AVA in our reach. Continue to grow your networks and continue to bring more people to AVA. We will see you both in Las Vegas next fall.

Nancy: Great. Thank you.

Tori: Thank you.

Judy: Thank you.